To understand the current conflict, one must understand the way Lebanese think about this situation.
I'll note historical events alive in the minds of Lebanese, and note why Lebanese aren't "infantile" (the preferred Israeli term at the moment) for blaming Syria and Iran. There are many other events that occurred in this time period, but these are the ones Lebanese focus on at the moment.
1976 - The Syrian Army enters Lebanon.
1978 - Israel invades south Lebanon.
1982 - Full scale Israeli invasion. Path of destruction carved up the coast. Constant shelling and fear. Then, the Sabra and Shatila massacre.
During this time, Lebanese hated and feared the Palestinians, but they don't figure into Lebanese fears at present.
1985 - Israel pulls back, but keeps southern Lebanon.
1989 - The Taef Agreement calls upon Lebanese militias to disarm and restructures the Lebanese government, taking power away from the Christian president.
1990 - Lebanese militias, excluding Hezbollah, are disarmed under full Syrian control.
1992 - Syria calls for elections, even though most political parties argue that it was too early. Christians boycott the elections and continue doing so until 2005.
1994 - PM Rafiq al Hariri's government orders the military to fire on Hezbollah protestors, killing many. Hariri's initial economic plan called for an armistice with Israel. Hezbollah also checks his plans to restructure Beirut and Lebanon, halting the Ellisar Project which would have significantly changed the face of Beirut's southern suburbs, Hezbollah's stronghold. Many commentators call Hariri's plan both racist and classist.
1996 - Acting Israeli PM Shimon Peres begins the Grapes of Wrathe campaign against Lebanon. Many Lebanese see this as an unprovoked aggression. Israel was occupying Lebanon, thus Hezbollah's attacks against Israeli military targets and the Israeli proxy South Lebanese Army were justified.
Lebanese believe Peres began the attack to look strong in the face of PM Rabin's assassination, and to appear resilient in the face of a strong challenge from Binyamin Netanyahu in the coming election, which Netanyahu went on to win.
The Grapes of Wrathe campaign is most remembered for the Qana massacre, an incident in which Israel killed over 100 Lebanese refugees and UN soldiers on a UN base. The refugees were in the UN compound cafeteria and chapel when they were killed. The Israelis denied that they knew what they were firing on, but video evidence from Norwegian UN peacekeepers note that an Israeli drone was flying over the area, thus presuming that the Israelis could "see" their target.
'98 or '99 (my memory fails me) - Israeli jets swoop low over Beirut constantly from midnight to 5am. Electricity plants throughout the country are bombed.
2000 - Israel pulls out of south Lebanon without signing any agreements. The UN draws the Blue Line while in constant communication with both Hezbollah and Israel. At one point along the line, a tomb is divided down the center. Israelis claim the tomb belonged to a rabbi. Hezbollah claims it belongs to Sheikh Abad.
Syrian President Hafez al Assad, Director of Lebanese General Security Jamil as-Sayed, and Hezbollah use the questionable affiliation of the Shebaa Farms to provide a reason for Hezbollah to hold onto their weapons, even though they failed to bring the issue of the Shebaa Farms up when the Blue Line was being drawn.
Many Lebanese opposed to Hezbollah hate Israeli PM Ehud Barak for leaving without signing an agreement. They claim that Israel provided Hezbollah with a victory because Hezbollah was not forced to change at all.
2000-2005 Syria keeps the Lebanese military intentionally weak. The biggest supporter of the Lebanese Army is the United States, but this only strengthens the military bureaucracy. It doesn't add to its might. To show you how unprepared the Lebanese military is for war, during boot camp, Lebanese soldiers get three days off every week.
During this time period, Hezbollah is strengthened both militarily and politically. The Syrians draw the electoral map to ensure Hezbollah political victories and to keep rival Shia political parties from having any possibility of winning in elections. To maintain Hezbollah's military strength, the Syrians do not allow the Lebanese military or government access to south Lebanon.
Also during this period, Syria and Iran develop closer and closer relations. Hezbollah is the biggest beneficiary of this relationship, and perhaps helped it come into being.
Fall 2004 - Syria extends the terms of incredibly unpopular Lebanese President Emile Lahoud. The Lebanese Parliament is forced to amend the constitution to do this. The United States and France pass UNSC Resolution 1559 calling for Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon, and the disarmament of all Lebanese militias, ie Hezbollah.
October 2004 - Lebanese parliamentarian and former minister Marwan Hamade, a close ally of both Rafiq al Hariri and Druze leader Walid Jumblatt, is nearly assassinated. Open criticism of Syria by Lebanese politicians is subsequently silenced.
14 Feb. 2005 - Former PM Rafiq al-Hariri is assassinated while campaigning to win the upcoming election. He was predicted to win massively. Especially worrying for the Syrians was Hariri's ties to the French. The Syrians blame Hariri for UNSC 1559. If anyone could force them out of Lebanon, it would be Hariri democratically winning an election that the Syrians had intentionally tried to stack against him.
8 March 2005 - Nearly 800,000 Hezbollah supporters and supporters of pro-Syrian political parties flock to Riad as-Solh Square to "thank" Syria.
14 March 2005 - Nearly 1.2 million Lebanese flood Martyr's Square, Gemayze, Tabaris, Monnot, the port, the Jal ad-Dib highway, Fouad Chehab overpass, Bank Streetr, and Riad as-Solh Square. Many of these Lebanese do not support the Lebanese opposition, but wanted Syria out and did not want Hezbollah to define Lebanese public opinion.
March-December 2005 - More Lebanese politicians and personalities are assassinated. Bombs routinely go off in Christian areas. Lebanese politicians flee the country for their lives.
The Lebanese government moves from one crisis to the next, all the while being attacked by pro-Syrian Lebanese politicians, radical speeches by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Syrian court cases bringing charges against Lebanese politicians, and a blockade by Syria that significantly damages the Lebanese economy.
25 April 2005 - The Syrian Army leaves Lebanon, but the Syrian intelligence apparatus remains in place as do Syria's allies. Since the Syrians ruled Lebanon for 29 years, their reach is extensive. They controlled the Lebanese government, thus all key military and intelligence positions were assigned by them.
Spring/Summer 2005 - The inexperienced 14 March coalition, fearing internal turmoil, makes a political deal with Hezbollah to use Syria's 2000 election law to govern the 2005 election. Hezbollah sweeps Shia regions. 14 March coalition believes it will be able to sweep the rest of the country and have a complete parliamentary majority in which they can push through any legislation they choose, including the removal of the President.
Christian leader Michel Aoun splits with the 14 March coalition, running against them in the elections. He sweeps most Christian regions. The 14 March coalition garners a parliamentary majority, but does not have the votes to do anything without support from Hezbollah or Aoun. Aoun and Hezbollah make an alliance.
The inexperienced 14 March leaders fail miserably. They spend more time in meetings with Bush, Chirac, and Saudi King Abdullah than they do with each other.
The Lebanese government calls upon Syria to demarcate the border with Lebanon and establish an embassy in Beirut. They refuse. The Syrians also refuse to call the Shebaa Farms region Lebanese, keeping the debate up in the air. UN maps note that the Shebaa Farms are part of the Golan Heights, thus Israel cannot cede the territory to Lebanon until Syria legally notes that the territory is not part of that taken from Syria.
12 December 2005 - Vocal Syrian opponent and editor-in-chief of Lebanon's oldest paper is assassinated the very day he returns from France.
At the same time, the UN Report fingering Syria in the assassination of Hariri and linking them to all other bombing in Lebanon is released.
January 2006 - Lebanese politicians return from abroad.
Hezbollah pulls out of the government. They continue receiving aid from Syria and Iran. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah meets with Iranian President Ahmadinejad in Damascus. During this entire time, Lebanese PM Fouad Saniora is persona non grata in Damascus.
To end the crisis, the government decides to call Hezbollah a "resistance" movement, not a militia, thus undermining UNSC Res. 1559.
A National Dialogue is called. Lebanese leaders sit down as equals at one table. The main topic of conversation revolves around the most powerful party, Hezbollah. There is no way to force Hezbollah to give up their weapons through negotiations, but other political groups begin to corner them.
US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice pushes the plan to remove Lahoud, remove top Syrian appointed military and intelligence officials, strengthen the military, and continue the investigations into the bombings and assassinations. The 14 March coalition does not have the votes to pass any of this, but President Bush and Secretary Rice claim they understand the Lebanese predicament and that they are dedicated to strengthening Lebanese democracy and institutions while isolating Syrian influence.
Throughout this entire period, Lebanese, Americans, and French have been working to disarm Hezbollah, stop the assassinations and bombings, isolate Syria and the Palestinian militias, and bring stability to Lebanon.
Wednesday, August 02, 2006
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94 comments:
Thanks for the primer! Now these are the correct events to focus on, rather than Hizbollah's actions against the US in the 1980's! Excellent!
Wait a second! Why did Israel invade southern Lebanon again in the '80s? Did it have something to do with the PLO acting as a state-within-a-state murdering Israeli civilians like another terrorist organization in Lebanon that we could name? Or maybe this is just airbrushed from history.
Thanks LP. Well done.
Big Dave, there was a PLO ceasefire from 81-82 in which they didn't fire any missiles. But Israeli still did.
The pretext was the attempted assassination of the Israeli Ambassador to the UK, Shlomo Argov. This act was undertaken by Abu Nidal's group- sworn enemies of the PLO. The Israeli invasion was politically motivated i.e. the fiction of destroying the PLO and all would be fine.
PS LP, I note that there's no mention of the civil war i.e '75 onwards, any reason for this?
A very articulate way of expressing the political situation in Lebanon. Well done!
But who are you blaming now for the vast deterioration in Lebanon?
"To understand the current conflict, one must understand the way Lebanese think about this situation"
interesting opening. telling us the lebanese perspective is instructive but it doesn't help us understand the conflict,unless you are implying that one side's failure to view history objectively can lead to conflict.
It seems that the author has a mental block with regard to the PLO. If one were to rely on this post for their understanding of Lebanese history, they would assume that the Israelis invaded in the 1980s for no good reason.
The author should apply to the NY times, CNN or some other worldly news organiziation with a selective recolection of history.
I've decided to change the name of Lebanon to Lebagone.
The jihad does not go so well.
Can't you fool's win just one fro the gipper ?
Guys,
You're getting me angry. You're not reading what I wrote.
I'm not trying to recount absolutely everything that occurred.
I'm positive that my knowledge of history of this situation from the Lebanese (multiple perspectives, ie Christian, Druze, Shia, Sunni, leftist, SSNP, etc.), American, and Israeli is better than probably 99% of you reading this.
I know what this means to Americans. For crying out loud, I'm an American who's worked for the US government and the American Congress.
I know what this means to Israelis. I'm in regular communication with Israelis. I've read Israeli books, newspapers, and blogs and listened to Israelis recount their personal stories.
What you don't know is the Lebanese perspective.
It seems like you don't want to know it. You just want to continue hanging on to your issues without understanding anyone else.
If I were as loony as you, I better start arming myself because the only force you understand is violence. If you can't properly read, that's not my problem. Your power to vote is an issue for me, which is why I continue to put up with your ignorance.
I'm not going to stop understanding other people simply because you can't get over yourselves.
BTW, this comment isn't meant for the majority of you who realize I'm talking about the position of the Lebanese people right now who are thinking of their relationship with Israel (as they should because they are currently under attack from Israel and can't get necessary supplies because of an Israeli blockade) instead of focusing on Lebanese relationships to Communist China, Croatia, Kentucky, or Congo-Kinshasa, let alone the PLO, Iran, Syria, or the Palestinian militias that continue to plague Lebanon.
I have questions.I am not Jewish. I am an American who strongly supports Israel.
1) If Israel were to completely annihilate HezbAllah and an international force were to come in, how would the Lebanon democracy fare in say 6months?
2) If Israel fail to do 1) aren't the HzB going to take revenge on its opponents in the form of lethal reprisals against within Lebanon?
3) If 1) happens what will happen if the international force fails to block weapons/fighters being sent in to Lebanon across the Syrian border?
Thanks
LP,
I need a better explaination of the recent history. It sounds to me like the peaceful process of disarming Hizballah was in gridlock. The National dialogue wasn't making any real progress and even if it was, the Syrian influence wouldn't let anything happen. Was this indeed the case ? I'm asking because many moderate Lebanese say things like "stupid Israel, we were just about to disarm them peacefully and you had to come in a ruin everything". If the process was indeed stuck then Israel's "taking matters into her own hands" seems justified to me.
Thanks,
Ofer
Interesting post. As an outside observer with little prior knowledge of Lebanon it is very important to see the Lebanese perspective of recent history.
A question though: Do most people in Lebanon view themselves as primarily Lebanese or as their ethnic/religious group first? How strong is the Lebanese national identity and has it been strengthened by this conflict or has it being weakened or perhaps even co-opted by the Hezbullah identity?
"During this time period, Hezbollah is strengthened both militarily and politically."
"Throughout this entire period, Lebanese, Americans, and French have been working to disarm Hezbollah, stop the assassinations and bombings, isolate Syria and the Palestinian militias, and bring stability to Lebanon."
I am not sure that in veiw of the first citation the work of Lebanese, Americans, and French is something worth mentioning.
i can read just fine thank you. i hold degrees in biology and law and have read extensively on many topics not the least of which is the middle east. i don't know how you can say with any confidence that your knowledge about any of the enumerated historical perspectives is superior to anyone, let alone 99% of the people that comment here. your fallback to loonies and violence does not give me any comfort about your ability to argue rationally.
you present a laundry list of grievances which if taken at face value would explain the perspective of the lebanese. fine. my point was, how can you justify shaping your perspective from facts lacking the proper context. if you did not intend to justify this perspective but merely describe it then i return to my original point that the failure to add context merely demonstrates a refusal to see things as they actually were and are.
the only possible consequence of failing to come to terms with each others perspectives is conflict without hope of conciliation.
What you don't know is the Lebanese perspective.
It seems like you don't want to know it. You just want to continue hanging on to your issues without understanding anyone else.
Some of the comments here remind me of the old saying of what British people do when they go abroad and find that the locals don't speak English. JUST SHOUT LOUDER!
An interesting post, LP. A few comments in response:
2000 - Israel pulls out of south Lebanon without signing any agreements.
As Lebanon was under Syrian control at the time, was this really realistic?
Throughout this entire period, Lebanese, Americans, and French have been working to disarm Hezbollah, stop the assassinations and bombings, isolate Syria and the Palestinian militias, and bring stability to Lebanon.
As a result, Hezbollah must be absolutely delighted by the recent turn of events.
LP, thank you for giving the Lebanese perspective :)
It doesn't really matter, and is quite off-topic, but with this
""infantile" (the preferred Israeli term at the moment)""
you're terribly generalizing ;) I think both, Lebanon and Israel together are stuck in the iranian/syrian labyrinth looking for a way out desparately and bumping into eachother all the time....
Tse.
LB,
I have one big problem with your account of events. You NEVER mentioned the attacks of Palestinians and Hezbollah on Israel, which lead to Israeli invasions into Lebanon. When a person who is not so familiar with this region's history read your account, it looks like Israel was systematically attacking Lebanon out of the blue, for no reason at all. You take things out of their context and choose to mention only some of the relevant events, while intentionally omitting others. This is the same as lying.
I really liked your posts, and I thought: here, there is a nice reasonable Lebanese guy, with whom one can talk, and if there are more Lebanese like him sure peace is just a matter of time. But I am very disappointed by your current post. It sounds like Hezbollah propaganda to me. Even if you only want to show Lebanese view of what has happened, completely ingoring things that happened to the other side is not just morally wrong, it is misleading, and unfortunately probably self-delusion.
How and Why is it that Lebanese do not
seem to be in control of what happens in their country?
Interesting post and I appreciate you showing us what Lebanese think. However, I think there is a slight problem with this. Lebanese don't think as one collective group. Wouldn't you agree that Christians view the civil war differently than the Shia? So this may be your Lebanese view, but maybe different from say a Lebanese Druze's view. Many Christians and Shia would add the PLO into this timeline, mainly b/c many of their people were massacred by them.
-Mary
The PLO, 15,000 strong, were kicked out of Lebanon as a result of the 1982 invasion. Until then, the PLO had been dominating the Lebanese militia-struggle like an 800-pound gorilla, acting like their own little country. And Israel kicked them out, the whole point of the invasion. Is there any particular reason you failed to mention this?
one must understand the way Lebanese think
Sorry LP but what is the point? The Lebanese DON'T think.
You can cite a zillion date and a zillion event.
No sovereignty = catastrophe.
That's what the textbook says.
We did not believe it in 1969, hence PLO in South, catastrophe.
Now in 2006, Hezbo in South, catastrophe.
I think retards get it by now. When will my people get it
Wow, so the Lebanese people don't think the PLO activities were significant. You're right, this is very illuminating.
Thank you for your important summary of events.
One wrong does not make a right is I believe a basic truism. THe death of innocents is a failure that we all should share in and not immaturely vent partisan anger.
With its power Israel must once again take responsibility in recognising that deaths of the Lebanese are as important and worthy of our grief as individuals in Israel. Their deaths are not inevitable.
All persons and nations of goodwill must recognise as a matter of urgency that problems need to be faced together. Once again we must learn in international affairs that we must reacqauint ourselves with trust. Importantly keep working at it when real events attempt to derail you.
Israel should have used Lebanese contacts/government structures and the UN to intervene in the issue of Hezbolah. Oppostion to Israel takes heart from Israel's habit of shooting from the hip which becomes the fuel of justification. Let us also face the fact that what is being played out here with the blood of innocents are the internal politics of Israel and Olmert's need to fill Sharon's shoes.
Ironically the invasion and decimation of the infrastructure of |Lebanon has again forced the reliance of Lebanon back onto Syria and factional groupings. Israel and its avowed enemies are acting seemingly in concert with each other.
None of these actions and the devastations of the aftermath will convince thinking peoples of this world that Israel has it in it to break the cycle of violence and show that it really does want to engage sewriously with all parties in resolving this regionall dipute which has gone on for too long. It seems clear that it may only be a change in the USA government that may give some hope in facing Israel up to some real truths which in the medium and longer terms are as much in their interests as others in the region.
Let us all make a better world from our grieving and recognise the powewre we have too make it right.
whoever wants to really understand hizbollah, please read the last article i posted.
www.elasmar.blogspot.com
You have misunderstood. Understand yourself first and realise that actions blind and for themselves are no substitute.
New post on Via Recta:
Ronald Reagan was right after all
Thank you for this post. Put together with other perspectives (such as the Israeli) it helps to round out the issues - after all it is impossible to be completely objective when personally involved.
A couple of posters asked some interesting questions about the aftereffects, for instance if Hizbollah were truly weakened, or if they were to go after other Lebanese polititians, I would be interested in hearing your response.
I does sound though that the idea that Lebanon was "dealing" with Hizbollah was a bit of a hopeful illusion.
http://billmon.org/archives/002617.html
Now you know why I spend more time leaving Lebanon and why I'm now back in the U.S.A.
I do have alot of repressed anger and much more denial when it comes to facing the reality of my country and it's incredible failures these past 25 years.
We just don't seem to learn as a nation and are really incapable of taking any personal responsibility. So please excuse me if I continue with my drivel.
I have a job opportunity with the Office of Disinformation in Damascus and I'm just getting some much needed practice in.
WHO REALLY REALLY REALLY wnat to understand Israel's scapegoat GO TO
http://www.mx-curiosity.blogspot.com/
Pretty ineresting!!!!!!!
i think those of you that live in countries that have little if any freedom are somewhat brave to engage online anonymously.
i find though that some bloggers think they should be lionized for not wanting to wipe out the jews. don't get me wrong, i appreciate that, but i don't really see that as a healthy starting point.
lebanon is an unfortunate theatre of operation. i hate the fact that children are dying. would it be possible to free them from harm's way, i would do what i could as would any loving person.
but, lebanon became the line to cross. yes, syria and iran arm hizballah, but the hiz does and have controlled south lebanon. nisrallah is in the cabinet.
do you really believe that any other country would be as careful and self defeating as israel in these circumstances?
they lose soldiers because of their nonlethal tactics.
i read perpetual refugee's whines about genocide. unbelievable lack of perspective and understanding of history and war.
i thought i came across some arabs free of basic brainwashing on these blogs but i find that their 'views' fly as does the wind.
full disclosure, i've had 3 margaritas
no, i'm not pulling a gibson
LP, you write:
To end the crisis, the government decides to call Hezbollah a "resistance" movement, not a militia, thus undermining UNSC Res. 1559.
You have that as part of January 2006, or sometime after?
That's wrong. If you read UNSC Res. 1559 (and its press release, dated 02/09/2004), you will see the statement from one Mohamed Issa, the "Secretary-General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Emigrants of Lebanon."
According to the press release (again, from early 2004), Issa said, "that there were no militias in Lebanon. There was only the national Lebanese resistance, which appeared after the Israeli occupation and which would remain so long as Israel remained. The resistance force existed alongside the Lebanese national forces. Lebanon determined the presence and size of the force, depending on the country’s need. The authority of Lebanon extended to all parts of Lebanon except those areas occupied by Israel."
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sc8181.doc.htm
You are saying now that that wasn't the official Lebanese government position when the UNSC passed resolution 1559? But that there was a more honest position all along, only subverted 2 years later in an effort to stave off a crisis with Syria?
Issa doesn't even say the word "Hizballah" in his statement. He calls them the "national Lebanese resistance" in 2004 - right when the UNSC is telling him that his government has a responsiblity that he is denying they have.
That's been the "official" government position since 2004. There might have been Lebanese who disagreed with it - sure, but the "official" position is laid out in the resolution press release itself.
Please read it.
Whoops - scratch "early 2004" and make it "September 2004."
But the rest of the post stands.
Is there any indication that the official Lebanese government position on 1559 changed since the day it passed?
Was Mohamad Issa a pro-Syrian plant?
Is there any documentation that the government officially and publicly admitted that 1559 applied to Hizballah?
Mohamad Issa's denial that the disarming of Hizballah is required under 1559 should be part of your time line, regardless.
Lebanon Profile,
I, for one, am tired of the endless back and forth about Israel and Lebanon, and faultfinding from many commenters. Clearly, time was not on the Lebanese democracies side and Hezbollah was not going to put flowers in their hair and lay their weapons down without a struggle. I think people on all sides of this debate would be better served by enlarging their context to the global struggle ongoing and consider the possible paths going forward, not backward. I have been on the edge of my chair since March 14, 2005, hoping for a true democracy to spring up in Lebanon.
I read Iraq the Model
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2006/08/arab-media-between-baghdad-and-beirut.html
today, and the message is don’t trust your Arab media. Please keep an open mind. Give a listen to Mohammed.
What is crucial now, IMHO, is for Lebanese who care about Lebanon to look around carefully on the world stage. Don’t just think in terms of friends and enemies or rights and wrongs; think in terms of Lebanon’s interests in being an independent healthy state determining its own affairs.
Please take the time to read the following post. I am supplying some teasers to give the flavor. I think this piece lays out the possible futures better than any analysis I have seen in one piece. If I read blogger right, this is a 17 year old guy, which is simply amazing!
Nouri Lumendifi:
http://www.publiuspundit.com/?p=2845
“Iran is an empire, and always has been”, she said to me. “If it doesn’t do what it was made to, it will have another revolution, that could be good though!” She said with a laugh.
…
I think the rise of an imperial Islamic Republic is inevitable. I am a Shia, but I am not stupid. The Maghreb is rather safe for Shias, because there are few and few the farther west you go. But the Middle East should be expecting a diplomatic and sectarian revolution, in which Iran is the central actor, and an actor with impunity.
…
Some in Lebanon have consistently resisted Iranian revolutionary overtures, but most have succumbed to it. This isn’t to say that the Shias are a fifth column, but I will say that the weakest link within the Shia mass (which is not uniform) is its leadership and the group think that comes along with Middle Eastern communal politics.
…
Think what you will of Hezb Allah and the Israelis, but I do not think it can be denied that a Lebanon without Hezb Allah would be a Lebanon safe for the Lebanese democracy, and safe for Israel.
…
A new Persian Empire does not mean that all will be well for Arab Shias, the death of Israel, equity among nations and the stabilization of the region. It will mean wars, wars, sectarian rivalries, wars, competition between minor and major powers, and finally even bigger wars.
…
1. If Hezb Allah wins, Iran wins and what I described above will begin to take shape.
2. If Hezb Allah is totally wiped out, at the expense of Lebanon, I see a bleak future for stability, let alone peace in the Middle East.
3. If Hezb Allah is disarmed and Lebanon left mainly in tact, with wise rehabilitation assistance from the international community, I see a comparatively bright future, though not sunny.
Simply and generally put, save Lebanon, save the Middle East.
My sentiments, exactly!
jd will
Detroit Michigan
I think you've nicely laid out the Lebanese view:
History begins in 1976. The history of Hussein ibn-Talal driving the PLO into Lebanon, and the resulting Lebanese civil war, is down the memory hole.
The Lebanese civil war didn't happen, and it's too terrible to contemplate a civil war to remove Hezbollah.
Israel was wrong to leave Lebanon on its own terms; not signing agreements on its way out that Hezbollah would have violated in nanoseconds was very, very mean.
The incompetence and cowardliness of the "March 14 coalition" is somebody's fault, but certainly not that of the Lebanese.
The Lebanese government gives Hezbollah a bye, to "end the crisis." It ended badly, but nobody's supposed to notice.
A National Dialogue is called. It agrees to talk some more, and then, if that doesn't work, talk yet more.
Talking is "working to disarm Hezbollah." Hezbollah doesn't notice that, but it's not important.
Got it.
Good point Joel; I mentioned it somewhere, somehow and I can't bloody remember where I said it but the gist of the post was;
The UN (international community) reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch of English Bobbies crying out, "Stop, Stop...or I will be forced to say stop again!!!"
Occupy a country, torture its citizens and in the end you face resistance.In Israel’s case it was Hezbollah, and in the end Hezbollah ran Israel out of Lebanon, which is why a lot of Lebanese regard Hezbollah not as terrorists but as courageous liberators. The years roll by and Israel does its successful best to destroy all possibility of a viable two-state solution. It builds illegal settlements. It chops up Palestine with Jews-only roads. It collars all the water. It cordons off Jerusalem. It steals even more land by bisecting Palestinian territory with its “fence”. Anyone trying to organize resistance gets jailed, tortured, or blown up. Sick of their terrible trials, Palestinians elect Hamas, whose leaders make it perfectly clear that they are ready to deal on the basis of the old two-state solution, which of course is the one thing Israel cannot endure. Israel doesn’t want any “peaceful solution” that gives the Palestinians anything more than a few trashed out acres surrounded with barbed wire and tanks, between the Israeli settlements whose goons can murder them pretty much at will.
You can say that Israel brought Hezbollah into the world. You can prove it too, though this too involves another frightening excursion into history. This time we have to go far, almost unimaginably far, back into history. Back to 1982, before the dinosaurs, before CNN, before Fox TV, before O’Reilly and Limbaugh. But not before the neo-cons who at that time had already crawled from the primal slime and were doing exactly what they are doing now: advising an American president to give Israel the green light to “solve its security problems” by destroying Lebanon. In 1982 Israel had a problem. Yasir Arafat, headquartered in Beirut, was making ready to announce that the PLO was prepared to sit down with Israel and embark on peaceful, good faith negotiations towards a two-state solution. Israel didn’t want a two-state solution, which meant — if UN resolutions were to be taken seriously — a Palestinian state right next door, with water, and contiguous territory. So Israel decided to chase the PLO right out of Lebanon. It announced that the Palestinian fighters had broken the year-long cease-fire by lobbing some shells into northern Israel. Palestinians had done nothing of the sort. I remember this very well, because Brian Urquhart, at that time assistant secretary general of the United Nations, in charge of UN observers on Israel’s northern border, invited me to his office on the 38th floor of the UN hq in mid-Manhattan and showed me all the current reports from the zone. For over a year there’d been no shelling from north of the border. Israel was lying. With or without a pretext Israel wanted to invade Lebanon. So it did, and rolled up to Beirut. It shelled Lebanese towns and villages and bombed them from the air. Sharon’s forces killed maybe 20,000 people, and let Lebanese Christians slaughter hundreds of Palestinian refugees in the camps of Sabra and Chatilla. The killing got so bad that even Ronald Reagan awoke from his slumbers and called Tel Aviv to tell Israel to stop. Sharon gave the White House the finger by bombing Beirut at the precise times — 2.42 and 3.38 — of two UN resolutions calling for a peaceful settlement on the matter of Palestine. When the dust settled over the rubble, Israel bunkered down several miles inside Lebanese sovereign territory, which it illegally occupied, in defiance of all UN resolutions, for years, supervising a brutal local militia and running its own version of Abu Graibh, the torture center at the prison of Al-Khiam.
Work Citation: an excrept. Visit http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/atrocities.htm to see some of the war crimes in Palestine and Lebanon in this unfair world; and to understand more about the israelis-Arab conflict. They are war crimes and Israelis can never deny THIS! (We have the freedom to expose the undeniable in this world)
Source: www.mx-curiosity.blogspot.com
Q:who is brainwashing the public now?
A: propagandists who try to cover up their war crimes by any means necessary because their causes justify their actions.
Palestinians elect Hamas, whose leaders make it perfectly clear that they are ready to deal on the basis of the old two-state solution
And you have a pet unicorn and the tooth fairy delivers your mail.
For a short while, some Hamas officials started talking b.s. about a "temporary truce" that would allow for negotiations with Israel about a temporary (read: unacceptable) two state arrangement, but that was shut down by the real leaders anyway:
February 2006, from the man himself:
Khaled Meshaal: 'We shall never recognize... a Zionist state on our soil'
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-meshal1feb01,0,4722412.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
April 2006, same deal:
Hamas will never recognize Israel, says Meshaal
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2006/April/middleeast_April389.xml§ion=middleeast&col=
eramzi,
Way to slam almost 300 million people.
America has many airports and airlines. All of them will be happy to take your $$ at any time.
Of course, you're free to slam all the Americans, and even their government - as much as you want. And face no consquences.
But it's a big world out there.
Why stay in a place where you hate and have no respect for everyone?
Or is it easier just to bitch about them?
Eramzi, are you a US citizen? If not, it is only out of generosity that the US offered you refuge from hell and an education. Whether you are or aren't a US citizen, the door is always open for you to leave and return to the freedom and open-mindedness of Hezbollah.
I am sure there are many Israelis
who can counter the points made
in this history lesson and the commentators.
But if Israel was so brutal in the past ... it merely shows how IDIOTIC Hezbolla was to perform an act of war against Israel now.
It is the Job of the Lebanese
Government to negotiate prisoner releases with Israel NOT
Hezbollas .... plain and simple
Hezbolla brought the current
horror to Lebanon.
This little history lesson and commentators should also serve
as a warning to all Muslim nations
thinking of sponsoring terror attacks against American cities.
You will suffer ...Your citizens will
suffer 10,000 times the amont the Americans will suffer ....
Just as Fat Turds like Arafat
and Dictators like Saddam ....
Iranian Mullahs and Hezbolla fat
cats send innocents to their death
in futile causes. Iranians and Others need to turn their backs
on these futile causes like killing
a handful of Jews with a suicide bomber ... Parents of Muslims
must consider the lives of their
children and NOT get involved
in stupid wars with the US and Israel ... Especially when legitimate reasonable peace proposals have been offered .
Lets focus on CURRENT Events
1) Hezbolla initiated the latest round of violence irrefutable
2) Israle DID withdraw from Gaza
3)Bush/Sharon did offer Abass
a very reasonabl road-map for peace
4)30,000 Iraqi have died
at the Hands of other Muslims
in Iraq
More Iraqi have died in th past three weaks at the hands of other Muslims then did Lebanese at the hands of Israelis
5)Baghdad Aug 2 2006
Iraqi teenagers slaughtered
while playing soccer ....
NOT A JEW OR AMERICAN IN SIGHT
6) Yeah Americans are narrow minded
... you mean like the Americans who donated over a billion dollars to Tsunami relief
IN ADDTITION TO THE BILLION
OF TAX Dollars THE US GOVERNMENT PROVIDED
How about the earthquake relief effort in Northern Pakistan ???
How about all the non-Americans
who come to the US Free of Charge
for special surgeries ???
How many different cultures and How many different countries are represented by people living and working peacefully in say
New York City alone ???
Hell NYC is one of the few places
where Sunni and Shia Muslims
DO NOT Kill each other ....
Most Americans pay their taxes
and go on with their lives
and trust the government to handle
foreign affairs ... we do not worry too much about the world outside the US because we have a Huge State department which handles
this for us ...
And we certainly do not need
jealous American Hating
foreigners to provide us with
information ... if we need to hear
propaganda we have the
New York Times for that !!!!
let's straighten things out. first "not-so-stupid amerikun" that handle suits you perfectly. second, it is guys like you that make us ,educated and cultured US CITIZENS look bad in the arab world. if you , "Anonymous" and "not-so-stupid amerikun" learned to listen and read and educate yourself you wouldn't be looked at as ignorants for once. why dont you try it for a change instead of taking a defensive response. and if you still havent gotten an answer; YES i am a US CITIZEN and i am probably even more thankful for my country (the US) for every damn opportunity it has given me, when inconsiderate people like you take every single thing for granted.
maybe it is easier to bitch about it huh ???
I love it when people try to argue with other "smart people" using all the big words and "intelligent insults" possible. Come on, guys.
You can't expect anyone to know everything, or to remember everything. This is a very informative post becuase it's nice to see the Lebanese perspective as opposed to the Hizbollah perspective or whatever else the media purports.
As we say about the United Nations... stop the pointless arguing and start the productivity.
Oh, and no one cares what degrees you hold. Because we all know that both Bush AND Kerry went to university. A university degree doesn't mean a whole lot in the real world. (that was my contribution to the "pointless argument")
thanks
and if you guys even took the time to read what i have written on my blog you would probably understand where i stand... thats if you know how to read...
elasmar.blogspot.com
Great post and discussion. If you'd like to annotate your history of Lebanon to discuss the history of the land back to its first inhabitants (the Phoenecians), you are welcome to cite/link to my own history of Lebanon at
http://vanishingdigitalrefuse.blogspot.com/
You may also wish to read my current essay on the Israeli war of aggression on Lebanon, entitled "Is an Israeli teardrop worth more than a drop of Lebanese blood?" at http://todayseffort.blogspot.com/
eramzi, people were responding to your comment, regardless of what may or may not be in your blog... i'm not interested in your life story, but thanks.
eramzi,
you insult an entire people (that's called bigotry, by the way) and are shocked when people protest.
it is guys like you that make us ,educated and cultured US CITIZENS look bad in the arab world.
So it's people who respond to, and stand up against, your blanket bigotry that make "educated and cultured" Americans (you had just called ALL Americans idiots in your first post - now all of the sudden there's more than one kind of American? Shocking.) like you look bad to the Arab world?
Whatever.
Again - lots of airports and airlines in America, and lots of places in the world that "educated and cultured" (and well-mannered!) individuals, like yourself can feel more at home.
Of course, you could also:
a) apologize for calling all Americans idiots;
b) recognize the irony of accusing others of " taking a defensive response"; and
c) try and contribute something productive, rather than insulting, to the discussion.
people, you really are funny. first of all, you want eramzi to apologize because he called americans idiot? so should we ask all of you who previously insulted us, lebanese, palestinian, arabs to apologize when you stereotype and call us terrorists? i think you should be the one flying out of the country and letting people like eramzi stay in the US. the way i see it is that eramzi was a gentelman and rephrased his message. you wanna keep weeping anonymous? keep n doing so because you look immature whenever you can't get over something as dumb as calling you an idiot.
you add that that he needs to contribute with something productive when you keep on replying and never put aside the remark he posted and get over it. at least one anonymous was mature enough to reply in a good manner with one sentence. and my friend, bigotry is far from being what you define it. double check you grammar my blogger friend.
Hi,
Strong wise words you have my friend. Please take the time to read this letter my friends and I have been sending Lebanese bloggers. It's a chain video letter cooperation project, the main goal being neighbour solidarity. We would like to hear your opinion about this:
"We are a bunch of young Israeli filmmakers and the like, based in Tel Aviv. As we strictly oppose the ongoing bombing of your country by our country, we thought how to put in use the little power that we have - the control of visual media - in order to contact our brothers sitting in Beirut.
Our goal is to create an interactive dialog, through the net, between us and you - being young thinking people who object the war, the bombing, and the ruthless fighting. We would like to create a place of solidarity between neighbours, between human beings being dragged into war.
We would like to let you know that our hearts are with you.
What was our idea?
Well, for the past day or so we sat and tried to build some sort of site on the net, that will be a screen for short clips, talking heads of people talking to each other, sharing their feelings and thoughts on this shameless war. All in the name of solidarity between humans, and for peace. Not to think of political solutions, but rather create a dialog of growth.
How will we do this?
By uploading short clips to this site, we'd like to create a chain letter of "talking heads" - Tel Aviv peace fighters talk to their Beirut bothers, and the other way around.
We are trying to find more Lebanese contacts, and recruit them for this mission pf peace.
We do not know what's the physical possibility of filming and uploading in Beirut is, but we can start by talking through messenger, or emailing. If this is of any interest for you, you can contact:
beirutelaviv@gmail.com
Yasmine.novak@gmail.com
and we can continue from there.
Take care,
Yasmine, representing "Hayarkon 70".
I'll note historical events alive in the minds of Lebanese, and note why Lebanese aren't "infantile" (the preferred Israeli term at the moment) for blaming Syria and Iran.
I thought everyone blamed Syria and Iran.
I have several Lebanese friends, and we were discussing recent events, and wow, they really do not like Syria. With good cause, I admit.
Stay safe.
1. The 1982 (called in Israel: "Peace to the Galilee, operation") started after The Palestinians (headed by Yasser Arafat) didn't stop shooting katyushas on Israeli civilian population - it was never aimed to conquer Lebanon - as you try to picture it.
2. Grapes of Wrath started from the same reason - trying to stop terrorist attacks on civilian population.
3. Christian Lebanese committed the Sabra and Shatila massacre, and Israel is blamed for not interfering. It was not an Israeli government decision to let this atrocity happen.
4. If you stop attacking and killing our man women and children with your blind hate - Israel would go about its business.
5. Israel pulled out of Lebanon not because Hezbollah defeated the IDF, it did so from political reasons - to give Lebanon a chance to control its country and not give any more excuses for the terrorist groups in Lebanon to attack us.
6. You keep attacking us and you keep suffering, but you complain. Lebanese have no claims from Israel. NONE. Israel is holding 2 Lebanese terrorists with blood on their hands that are sitting in prison - Just those 2. Nassarallah thinks its worth helping his brother terrorist go out of prison on the cost of getting Lebanon into war - so be it - he is your declared hero - now eat the shit that he cooked for you.
7. Shabba farms belong to Syria, and were never part of Lebanon. Israel declared it would give that back to Syria only as part of a peace agreement with them.
8. It is now clear that in the Quana accident 26 civilians killed (not 60 as was originally claimed) – It is sad enough but this is less then the number of civilians killed from Hezbollah rockets on our cities from the beginning of the fighting (including 14 year old Muslim girl and 2 Muslim brothers aged 3 and 7).
9. Israel is under attack with damage in property of hundreds of millions of dollars. About a million refugges and pepole sitting in shelters for 3 weeks with constant katyushas falling on their heads. The only reason there are no more casualties then there are (1-2 dead civilians, a day) is because there are no people in the streets of north Israel. Where is the world? Does somebody care? Does Jewish blood is not thick enough for French people to protest? Oh.. I forgot … we are the strong brutal people in this conflict, so our children are evil bastards that deserve to die.
I hope you all lebs die an Israeli weapon, u dirty terrorists
THAnks for a good list.
It is evidently slightly slanted in the direction of "senseless Israeli aggressors" by not providing real reasons for Israeli actions, but is definitely better than BBC versions. I am amazed (considering the war) to see that you did not slip into blind Israel bashing.
However, to make it more balanced wikipedia-style (if you want it, you can keep it as "Lebanese choice of basic facts of the history", which is probably even more interesting) I'd suggest that you include some Israeli point of view as well: invite some Israeli to make short correction/explanations/additions, possibly by italic.
I dont know LP what impression you were expecting people to have after reading this primer but as far as i am concerned it looks hopeless. You are talking in a sense of 'give us more time. We were on the right way'. But this is not my impression now. I was much more optimistic about your country before reading this.
I remember watching "60 minutes" about Lebanon (a few months ago). It showed Beirut as a modern city with tall office buildings and good restaurants.
I told my wife that in a year or 2 from now we will go for vacation there.
Everything looked so optimistic - Syria was kicked out and things were starting to look good for Lebanon.
Why did Nasarallah attack us?? Why ?!
I know he is a terrorist that gets its orders from Iran, but this terrorist organization has Lebanese citizens acting for it - don't they care for their country interests? They should all be considered traitors, working for Iran and against Lebanon.
How come normal people accepts it ??
This is sooo sad...
You ve got one one hand the fundamentalist movement like hezbollah that created a semi totalitarian state in the south. On the other hand aoun who in his quest for power is ready to pact with the devil itself and who split the christian community and paralysed the march 14 movement. With the syrians agents operating in the country assasinating people i simply dont understand where your optimism about the future of lebanon was coming from. Your country looks so fractured with politicians like aoun shamelessly engaging in the most dirty politics even before the gains of march 14 are consolidated, that it s hard to see how you were hoping to disarm hezbollah and dismantle the semi state it is maintaining in the shiite regions.
Anonymous @11:04
people, you really are funny. first of all, you want eramzi to apologize because he called americans idiot?
He doesn't have to apologize. But if he doesn't, then he just shouldn't whine when people object to his rampant bigotry - which he did.
Again, whatever.
Hell NYC is one of the few places
where Sunni and Shia Muslims
DO NOT Kill each other ....
If you are going to post good rants (no sarcasm) like the one this was part of, why post anonymously? Get a handle.
Good analysis.
Are you interested in exchanging links to our respective blogs ?
Jean
--
I agree with "nobody"'s analysis concerning his second post.
I have moreover received information that leads me to think that Aoun is somewhat playing a double game.
One on the internal lebanese scene, and one with the israelis.
Maybe trying to keep his options open ??
I have reported this double game in a post on my blog. I hope you don't mind me posting the address here: http://jeansouc.blogspot.com/ (the thread about ehud yaari and michel aoun).
Jean
--
Please check out the article on these sites
www.yioni.com/counter-spin.html
www.yioni.com/politics.html
fuk a ceasefire. i do not want one. i do not want to see a multinational force on my sacred lebanese soil. lebanon is not iraq, i refuse to be occupied. hizballah is lebanese and hizballah is operating in lebanon under the full support of the government. we use hizballah as an excuse to fight the dirty jews that until today refuse to give our prisoners back, our shebaa farms back and to give us maps of where they planted thousands of land mines before withdrawing in 2000. im not a member of hizballah whether their political arm or military arm. im not a muslim either. im a lebanese christian that loves every little inch of my land and is willing to die protecting it. NO CEASE FIRE, NO SURRENDER, NO BOWING DAOWN TO THE JEWISH DEVIL. THE JEWISH DEVIL THAT PUT OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS. YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED. ME AND MY MUSLIM BROTHERS WILL EVENTUALLY DEFEAT THE JEWISH SATANIC MACHINE. internally hizballah would be my rival. i do not support their ideas but when im against an external evil force that is destroying my country than i will stand hand in hand with hizballah against the zionist animals. my ak47 and rpg launcher are well oiled and ready for the devil. i want you to invade beirut and i will send u back to your country with your tail between your legs.
we are not terrorists, hizballah is not a terrorist organisation. the terrorists are the ones that have for the last 60 years killed tortured and imprisoned a whole nation (PALESTINE). eventhough i dont like pals much but blood is thicker than water. SO SCREW YOU, YOU FUKING MOTHER FUKERS.
AN ANGRY LEBANESE SEEING HIS BELOVED COUNTRY RAPED ONCE AGAIN BY THE DEVIL. THE COUNTRY THAT WAS REBUILT AND WAS THRIVING. BEIRUT AND LEBANON WILL PREVAIL.
LF.
LF said...
fuk a ceasefire. i do not want one.
NO CEASE FIRE, NO SURRENDER, NO BOWING DAOWN TO THE JEWISH DEVIL. THE JEWISH DEVIL THAT PUT OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS. YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED. ME AND MY MUSLIM BROTHERS WILL EVENTUALLY DEFEAT THE JEWISH SATANIC MACHINE. internally hizballah would be my rival. i do not support their ideas but when im against an external evil force that is destroying my country than i will stand hand in hand with hizballah against the zionist animals. my ak47 and rpg launcher are well oiled and ready for the devil. i want you to invade beirut and i will send u back to your country with your tail between your legs.
---------------------
The problem is that i am not sure you will see israeli tanks in beirut so soon. Maybe in the next decade.
As to hezbollah ... Yes. It will probably there. I think its a wise decision to keep your ak47 and rpg launcher well oiled and ready.
¿Does someone speak spanish?
LF writes:
my ak47 and rpg launcher are well oiled and ready for the devil.
And so is your keyboard, apparently.
What a joke.
Now that we have a primer on what you say Lebanese think, why not a matching primer to what ACTUALLY happened?
Or are you just comfortable repeating the myths that dragged Israel and Lebanon into this situation?
I find this to be a pattern here. Always posting of what Lebanese think, right or wrong, but never any parrelel presentation of the facts. Without parralel facts, what good are you doing other than perpetuating ignorance?
For example, Israel did not just appear in Lebanon. Lebanon, like Jordan prior, IT became a homebase for the PLO terrorists. The PLO were hijacking planes then, pioneering airline terrorism, and mounting attacks on Israeli civilians from Jordan. As Jordan was warned and Israeli troops massed along her borders, Jordan did the adult thing and removed the PLO.
Who then fled north to Lebanon, who did not remove them. Just as Lebanon today, will not remove Hezbollah. Just as if tomorrow Nazi unded come out of the ground and start consuming Lebanese children, as long as they are also killing Israelis, they will not be touched. They are all we have to defend our border from the oppresive Jews.
This site is brilliant. I read it all the time. I find it intelligent. But just like I find it my Lebanese friends warm and intelligent, many of them have the same problem with calling a spade a spade, and show the same conflict about Hezbollah because they are obsessed with Israel. Thinking that it's more of a threat to Lebanon than Hezbollah.
The fact is, Israel would benefit greatly from peace in the region. If Lebanese economy skyrockets, it does with Israel's. If it falls, it falls with Israel's. While Hezbollah profits from war and your suffering.
You would think that a Lebanon who is now threatening to meet Israel with her Army would have used that same army to claim the other half of her nation. If she was unable to disarm Hezbollah, why not ask for international help? Why not ask for international protection for the politicians who will honor the electorate wishes? At the very least, simply walk the army between Hezbollah and Israel? There have been UN observers there JUST for that reason. And now at the cost of many lives on all sides, there will be an Israeli made buffer free of Hezbollah with the Lebanese Army's name all over it.
Mr If,
Of course you don't want a cease-fire, all you towel heads want is war and the destruction of Israel, like your real president (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) just restated his call for the destruction of Israel saying that would end the current crisis in the Middle East.
60 years ago, btw, Israel wasn't declared as a state yet.
40 years ago, the whole west bank was ruled by Jordan and the Gazza strip by Egypt.
You can rest assure that if you drag us to Beirut, with your bloodthirsty provocations - your new oiled AK-47 would be buried with you under the rubbles of what used to be your city.
else said...
Mr If,
You can rest assure that if you drag us to Beirut, with your bloodthirsty provocations - your new oiled AK-47 would be buried with you under the rubbles of what used to be your city.
--------------------
I think that actually aoun and hezbollah are much more effective in this sense. i remember the civil war between aoun and ... i think it was geagea or something like this. But i do remember watching on the news for a few months rockets flying from one side to another across beirut. What happened then? I think then the syrians came
else,
my ak 47 and rpg launcher is not new, they have seen action during the lebanese civil war. they have just been resting dormant in my cellar. they are out now, the cobwebs have been cleaned and the parts well oiled.
you fukers could not break beirut in the 80's and you wont be able to do it this time either.
by the way i was fighting on your side during the civil war, i was young and didnt know better. this time around its a different story,, this time around i am united with my muslim and druze brothers, this time around im LEBANESE not christian or muslim.
god bless lebanon and all its 10452km 2
LF said...
by the way i was fighting on your side during the civil war, i was young and didnt know better.
this time around its a different story,, this time around i am united with my muslim and druze brothers, this time around im LEBANESE not christian or muslim.
god bless lebanon and all its 10452km 2
--------------------
This time you indeed know much better. No doubt about this.
hey, LF, ... cute ! how old are you ? where are your parents ? shouldn't say the F word my friend ! You'll learn when you grow up.
hey else, ... cute too ! your post began good, ended up real bad !
This primer is actually depressing. It sounds less like you had the seeds of democracy and more like a power vacuum waiting for someone to fill it - and Hezbollah seem to have taken the opportunity, effectively staging a coup with their action against Israel. Nasrallahs threats against non-shia Lebanese are also telling.
It seems that the invasions by Israel and Syria did nothing but prevent the conclusion of your civil war. It was never finished. Seems that Nasrallah is willing to finish it for you.
lisoosh said...
This primer is actually depressing. It sounds less like you had the seeds of democracy and more like a power vacuum waiting for someone to fill it - and Hezbollah seem to have taken the opportunity, effectively staging a coup with their action against Israel. Nasrallahs threats against non-shia Lebanese are also telling.
It seems that the invasions by Israel and Syria did nothing but prevent the conclusion of your civil war. It was never finished. Seems that Nasrallah is willing to finish it for you.
--------------
This is my impression too . Reading this primer was like seeing how the momentum of march 14 was running out of steam and disintegrating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq38COoTG8
WATCH THIS INTERESTING ME THINKS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq38COoTG8
anonymous said
;
"Palestinians elect Hamas, whose leaders make it perfectly clear that they are ready to deal on the basis of the old two-state solution, which of course is the one thing Israel cannot endure. ...Back to 1982,..Yasir Arafat, headquartered in Beirut, was making ready to announce that the PLO was prepared to sit down with Israel and embark on peaceful, good faith negotiations towards a two-state solution. Israel didn’t want a two-state solution"
i have a question. is this a commonly held belief in the muslim world?
Hezbollah are cheering on TV for killing 7 Israeli civilians today, 4 of them from the mixed (muslim and jewish) city of Aqo. Among the people who got killed are father and daughter and 3 farmers, working their fields.
Hezbollah say they don't want a cease-fire now, feeling strong with their luck in killing innocent people today. Not everyday they get to kill so many.
They want to bring Lebanon down the drain, and they will succeed in doing so. I guess that’s what Iran wants and by the sound of some militant Lebanese here - I guess it's what some people in Lebanon wish. They keep their guns under their pillow waiting for battle.
Thank you Lebanese people! Thank you very much for hosting these psychopaths in your country. Thank you for the bloodshed you spread in the region.
It seems that this is going to be a long war, which merely started...
Lebanon, A chronology of key events:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/country_profiles/819200.stm
LEBAGONE
The nations of the world are quick to blame Israel for what has happened to Lebanon and silent on the end goal of Hezbollah and Iran of destroying Israel.
They are amoral and side with the majority cult of death and their oil.
The world can't help themselves ,they are cursed hypocrites and what is happening in Lebanon is a foretaste of what befall's them very soon.
It's God's promise to Abraham ;
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
"Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father's house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
Genisis 12
The nation's have chosen to side with cursed Islam against Israel
and this is why God's judgment now begins to fall upon the whole earth.
11 Now also many nations have gathered against you,
Who say, "Let her be defiled,
And let our eye look upon Zion."
12 But they do not know the thoughts of the Lord,
Nor do they understand His counsel;
For He will gather them like sheaves to the threshing floor.
13 "Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion;
For I will make your horn iron,
And I will make your hooves bronze;
You shall beat in pieces many peoples;
I will consecrate their gain to the Lord,
And their substance to the Lord of the whole earth."
Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord's house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And peoples shall flow to it.
2 Many nations shall come and say,
"Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths."
For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 He shall judge between many peoples,
And rebuke strong nations afar off;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.*
4 But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree,
And no one shall make them afraid;
For the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken.
5 For all people walk each in the name of his god,
But we will walk in the name of the Lord our God
Forever and ever.
Micah IV
pills marcel pills.... i had thought that you overdosed on them since we havent heard from you for a while
How un-informed of you anon.
Unlike the superior elites and self made god's and the cults of hell we don't need pills in order to deal with reality or escape.
We don't need the bottle or delusions to hide behind.
I added this paragraph to LebaGone;
In the past three weeks I've listened to a number of Lebanese comment on how their country had successfully rebuilt itself after the great destruction and civil war of the 70's and 80's.
They didn't have a clue that the latest curse wrapped tightly around their neck,Hezbollah, would bring them down even further than before.
Yes Mr. canadian Jews. Its not a misconception or propaganda created by your jewish nation. Its a fact You israelis attempt to ignore.
Got it?
Yup; the stopped clock is right. It must be that time of day. It's part of Arab mythology that, in retrospect, every Israeli military victory came just before either a: the Arabs were about to make peace, or b: wasn't a victory, but a failure, or c: both.
Note, for example, the mythology around the Yom Kippur sneak attack as being the start of a "peacemaking" process; the Egyptians still celebrating the Yom Kippur War as though it was a victory for them; and what holiday Sadat got shot on.
If you believe the Arab mythology, Arafat was always ready to "make peace" -- if only he was offered just a leeeeeeeeeeeeeetle more. And, of course, it wasn't going to be real peace; it was going to be a hudna.
Meanwhile, back in the real world . . .
It is so sad to read/hear about what is going on in the middle east, with scores of innocent civilians getting hurt/killed on both sides, but regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel's part for whatever reason, please ponder the following:
If the Arabs put down their weapons, there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons, there would be no more Israel.
SO the state of Israel is built on violence. intersting. Israelis cannot live without killig and destroying and drinking the blood of the civilians like Dracula. The BLOOd of ARABS is their source of life. Intersting CONCLUSION.
The ZIONISM IS BUILT ON KILLING.
A word to the bloodthirsty monsters in this blog site. The ones who use Hezbollah as a tool to cover up their crimes. The ones who spread propagandas and lies to torture the poor innocent civilians. Be ashamed of yourselves before God inflict you with another concentration camp. Every Israeli comments in this site ask yourself a question: WHAT a hell is my government doing? Honestly. Your country made another Massacre in Qana. I wonder if its planned. To cover up this crime, your country came with another plan: Fake a videotape to show Hezbollah are there and justify our action. If you killed some of Hezbollah and destroyed their rockets. Why no single causality belonged to Hezbollah but rather to children and women in Qana?. This massacre reflects the lack of military experience in your army. And reflects how your prime minister lacks experience too. Your army goes a further step and fires on UN peacekeepers, another mistake, eh?. Cant you have a more qualified prime minister or army at least?. Do the innocents have to pay the cost of your nation mistakes???????? After all the carnages your army causes you come here and defend yourselves cowardly by saying LIES>> History repeats itself. The same massacre but with different approach inflicted on the people of Qana, Jenin, Sabra and Chatila.
"THE UGLY TRUTH ABOUT ISRAELI SKINHEADS
They Are Racists and Don't Care About Anyone
When Other People Cry, Israelis Are Not Moved
Their Nationalist Zionist Hate Kills Children Without Remorse"
Are you psychologically disordered and warped-minded not to see the truth? Because Humans will never act like you do.
Or, do you follow the principle which is known as (the end justifies the means), which is attributable to Mikiavili. So no matter how many children and women you kill(the means) as long as to destroy Lebanon(the end) in the name of destroying Hezbollah ? 3weeks since the war on Lebanon and no obvious victories for the Israeli army other than killing civilians. God will never bless the nation of death and massacres.
Honestly, be ashamed of your government and their actions!!
For what it is worth, the Israeli jets buzzed Beirut around August 1999. I was a hotel on Rouche at the time. They also blew up a power station or two the next month or so thereafter. Since that time, and until three weeks ago, they generally left Beirut alone.
Its a good try, this post. It just helps to put events that are living in lebanese peoples mind on a row, because i too believe that is what the lebanese compare things with.
Next i have a point of critique.
Somehow i became wary about the syria issue treated here.
(it seemed so much of a westerners way of looking)so very : "the un cant be wrong, and syria must".
Now i have no opinions, to syrian politics besides my natural sympathy for baath as a decolonising and therefore emancipatory movement.
Because i just don't know.(can't compare)
However i think that in an analyses of the lebanese historical context for the situation a more neutral perception of (part of) the syrian
activitys is in place.(part of syrias motive may have been helpfullness, you may joke: syria wants beirut, or israel wants beirut and damaskus. Some worry in the syrians is natural)
Lebanese people shouldnt forget the rule:
divide et impera. Media and politics will be focused on blaming parts of you (plo, hiz, aoun, baath) to make sure there will be no concensus in the resistance. And no unity after the occupation (through isr. and un) becomes a fact.
Plus the later event that the socialist republic of syria is doomed more then nato-befriended despotisms.
here you dont have to be arab or muslim to regard the capitalist/collaborist (so people who believe in privatisation of evrything eg.) interests as an element in the choosing of sides,
the propaganda.
And i dont know is there an option for lebanon to get over that.
Actually i think we can talk discuss and exchange what we want,
but it won't change the fairy tales we are forced to believe and act after now or after.
So that is what is at. We got the nr's , but they got the guns.
onix
I found your blog by accident and I am so glad I did. I love it. I loved reading about what
was going on in Lebanon, since I could only watch it from here. Keep up the good work.power leveling
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